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Thread: 2011-2012 Middle School Ranking (Nor*Cal TOC weights)

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Corcoran, Ca
    Posts
    321

    Default Good luck...

    As hard as High School is to rank... MS is 10X tougher. The problem is that the majority of wrestlers (or even top wrestlers in the state) do not all make it to the same event. There is just too much distance between Sacramento/Bay to Los Angles/San Diego that so much is lost in between as far as competition. Even in Cen Cal, we only see the best wrestlers in the State maybe 1-2 a year??? Even the State tournaments can't attract all the best wrestlers to one spot all at once... Then add on a grueling 5 month season (for many others.. more).

    Ernie is doing his best to help in the situation but I'm sure he has ran into more roadblocks than open lane highways... way more.

    Biggest Problem:
    99% of SoCal stays in SoCal
    99% of NorCal stays in NorCal
    99% of CenCal stays in Cencal

    Then add conflicting Associations to the mix...


    that is the problem but the solution is that much greater to figure out. Until we figure out a solution for this... not much can be done to 'change' this. Even the best clubs get out of their area a handful amount of times a season (which makes them that much tougher in the long run).

    Ernie... the out of State trips are FANTASTIC and should be applauded... but I think it is time to help sponsor as many SoCal boys to come up to a CenCal tourney or CenCal tourney to SoCal or NorCal to So Cal... or whichever makes the most sense... someone has to pick the best events in the state... maybe 1 in each respective sections and get as many of your best SoCal,NorCal, and CenCal boys there as you can... I think that is the ONLY way to help figure this out...

    I think each section should have a committe... meet 1 a month and say" Hey, who is our best 50-100 wrestlers in our area... we need to send these kids to so and so's tournament"

    Without that, we stay the same.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Bakersfield
    Posts
    2,335

    Default

    Adrian--I have been waiting for a pulpit and an excuse to get on it This is year (2) for me in the youth world and I have got an MBA in a few areas but still learning--there are so many moving parts and so many dynamics that make the whole landscape almost impossible to navigate.

    The problem really starts at the top--I mean the most succesful high school programs have the most succesful feeder programs. I look at our SCWAY k-8 State Results and the top 20 programs almost mirror the top 15-20 HS programs in the state. Typically all of those programs only go to major events -- rarely will you see those programs at local tournaments in any type of numbers. Why? simple they have the manpower,money, and will to travel so they do. If they lack money--they bust there humps to fundraise for it.

    So now you have another 140-150 youth programs if you want to call it that which do there own thing--support there buddies tournament of course and host there own--and do there three months and there done--most dont even attend a state event. What is the problem?

    The best athletes in there club eventually migrate to the better clubs, end result going to that better high school program because parents are smart enough to realize that there kids are falling behind. The tournament host has his fundraiser and supports a few local ones and this cycle continues as the top 10% travel and the bottom 90% is pretty in-active at best. How do you know this to be true ernie?

    Look at the CR, SCWAY state, Vegas, CA-USAW state, Reno---same elite clubs same 10% make up over 80% of each tournaments base. So what are we going to do?

    Likely nothing--the major events will grow just like CR--elite kids will benefit more than they ever have and elite clubs will get stronger--non elite clubs will complain that the rich get richer but in many cases the rich are doing all the work--
    Is there any way to really stop this?

    Probably not - EVERYONE is just worried about their own event, their own kid, and their own club. That is the downfall of a sport I guess that breeds individualism. Is there any solution? not sure--hard to get any type of leadership at the youth levels as of now--the top clubs probably have the best people to be put in that role but there to busy trying to beat eachother so they get more kids coming into there systemor they are already in the role now.

    Cagwa is a great example in my mind of the lack of available leadership. The club coaches cant figure out if they all got together and did there own schedule with Lawson (same as it is) they could buy $15 cards--keep $8-9 instead of $2 and they could still have the 500 kids--they would make more money--and we could send a team a week up north from socal. Will it ever happen? Probably not--expect the rich to get richer and the divide to grow as far as parity.

    FYI- That divide between the parity of the top tier and second tier makes you worse not better--the more parity the better the depth of the overall participation base which is CA Wrestling as a whole .

    Off my soap box now.

    So in short the answer to your question is yes we would love to send more kids to events in state but the same 20-30 clubs that travel are already doing so--and the rest are either not in our system or haven't expressed any interest--typically the first

    My friend from Hickman says keep grinding--My wife says just move to Clovis get a real job making the money you used to and be like every other wrestling dad--and worry about your own kids. haha
    Last edited by UniHighCoach; 01-04-2012 at 04:35 PM.
    There are two types of people: those that talk the talk and those that walk the walk. People who walk the walk sometimes talk the talk but most times they don't talk at all, 'cause they walkin'. Now, people who talk the talk, when it comes time for them to walk the walk, you know what they do? They talk people like me into walkin' for them.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Corcoran, Ca
    Posts
    321

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UniHighCoach View Post
    Adrian--I have been waiting for a pulpit and an excuse to get on it This is year (2) for me in the youth world and I have got an MBA in a few areas but still learning--there are so many moving parts and so many dynamics that make the whole landscape almost impossible to navigate.


    So in short the answer to your question is yes we would love to send more kids to events in state but the same 20-30 clubs that travel are already doing so--and the rest are either not in our system or haven't expressed any interest--typically the first

    My friend from Hickman says keep grinding--My wife says just move to Clovis get a real job making the money you used to and be like every other wrestling dad--and worry about your own kids. haha
    touche...lol.

    I already know all this... many out there don't.

    I just wanted you to go off on it... as you make much sense.... clovis have room for 2??? j/k... i like my soapbox.. even if the generic kind

  4. #24

    Default

    Union coach so your not from Clovis ? You had me fooled cause all you talk about is Clovis and it seemed like that was your high school too from all the updates from the clash tournament .

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Bakersfield
    Posts
    2,335

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deez36 View Post
    Union coach so your not from Clovis ? You had me fooled cause all you talk about is Clovis and it seemed like that was your high school too from all the updates from the clash tournament .
    I live in Bakersfield but we are moving to Clovis this summer--sorry to have fooled you. In fact this week I had my Oakdale shirt on and Lemoore hat on once, today I was wearing my Buchanan shirt and Poway shorts--tomorrow I am going to be wearing my snow pants and Clovis West Sweater--

    I guess maybe I am just a wrestling fan
    There are two types of people: those that talk the talk and those that walk the walk. People who walk the walk sometimes talk the talk but most times they don't talk at all, 'cause they walkin'. Now, people who talk the talk, when it comes time for them to walk the walk, you know what they do? They talk people like me into walkin' for them.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Clovis Foothills
    Posts
    180

    Default

    Cool! Moving to Clovis will be good! Close to all the action! Make sure you pick up a cowboy hat and some sheet kickers!

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Clovis Foothills
    Posts
    180

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mark9455 View Post
    How about Curtis Booth of Sutter Folsom at 95 lbs...took 4th at the Nor-Cal TOC last year and has beaten Wyatt Peverill at least twice, the kid is tough as nails, also look for emilio delariva and Dylan crane of Sutter Folsom to make their mark this year, but for now, Curtis Booth (as a top 5 returning toc placer) should should definitely be in the rankings
    Twice would be correct. Once last year and once this year. Both pretty close matches! WP also pinned 95lb #1 ranked guy at Jr. Mid Cals this year. All these guys are good. Gotta be fun to try and rank them all.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    27

    Default

    These Are very Solid Rankings,But Your 95s Is Off.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ripon
    Posts
    76

    Default

    I didn't remember 185 Nolasco from Folkstyle or Freestyle State in my son's weight class. I looked above and below and didn't find him in Trackwrestling for those tourneys attached to Central Catholic, either. Maybe he's listed in the wrong weight class, or for the wrong team? FYI.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Bakersfield
    Posts
    2,335

    Default

    he was at Pitman last year
    There are two types of people: those that talk the talk and those that walk the walk. People who walk the walk sometimes talk the talk but most times they don't talk at all, 'cause they walkin'. Now, people who talk the talk, when it comes time for them to walk the walk, you know what they do? They talk people like me into walkin' for them.

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