Senior Member
I'm with you on this. 16-24 is not huge. It's the way it should be. This leaves room for both quantity & quality. Great job to both Ernie & Clovis for putting on another great state tournament. Already looking forward to next years.
Originally Posted by jmwildcatwrestler
Senior Member
What will really make the youth state series legitiment is when kids that deserve to be there do not qualify and are not there. The Yosemite Valley gained legitimacy in outsiders eyes when defending state champ Joe Cisneros didnt get through to masters--that whole process lent credence to how tough the road to state is at the CA high school level. I was a new coach in CA when it happened and was like wow thats crazy--
I am in favor right now for larger qualifiers leading into a full 16 man bracket. Adam and I are kicking around ideas on how to make this a reallity as far as spectator managability and match count per session. In the coming weeks and months will be looking at the data, examining who showed up and from where. As a group we will get together after consulting with club coaches, parents and centers of influence in the youth wrestling community before finalizing any plan. Rest assure we will come up with a plan that fits the vision of the organization and aligns with what we feel is the right solution for our members. Here is one thing I know for certain:
The event will be on the third weekend of March next year as the NCAA's are a week later so unless CAUSAW changes there date we will be competing.
As for the bigger is better theory--take a look at the big 10 brackets. The right 8 man bracket can be tougher than any 32 or 64 man bracket and more rewarding and cost effective. The answer is not larger brackets but rather larger participation in the series that will ultimately lead into all of the best kids in the state participating in a quality bracket where a true state champion is crowned. Remember the Joe Cisneros story -that is exactly why the state tournament is meaningful not the bracket size.
Last edited by UniHighCoach; 03-26-2012 at 11:36 AM.
There are two types of people: those that talk the talk and those that walk the walk. People who walk the walk sometimes talk the talk but most times they don't talk at all, 'cause they walkin'. Now, people who talk the talk, when it comes time for them to walk the walk, you know what they do? They talk people like me into walkin' for them.
Senior Member
you are right but in youth wrestling... we don't have yosemite/sierra sequoia...nor do we want it... i've always been in favor of the qualifying system... as we use it for our association to get to NorCal TOC and makes sense to use it to get to events such as State... Our system isn't completely broken and just needs to be tweaked...take the good of one association and add it to the other... a great thing SCWAY does do it contact various clubs to get info that they can use to make the event better... something i have used for years to help John Muir Invite...now Cal Republic become better. We can't be too proud and not get the opinions of the little guys... as an organization... scway is doing that.
Member
We too are hoping for bigger brackets next year, we had good quality matches, but that meant we waited a long time between matches(approx 4hrs) to get to finals....not complaining by any means as we brought home a champ..lol... but bigger brackets, with good quality is not a bad idea....so i'm glad you are kicking that around...especially if you plan on going head to head with ca-usa state next year. Last weekend at USA state We had 6-7 matches in a 30 man good quality bracket from 8am-12:30 pm, that's some good mat time! OVERALL it was a good tournament for sure, done by 4pm each day, podium pics, awards package was awesome, you guys really put on a good finals show...announcing the kids as they wrestled and won...that is so cool for the kids. My ONLY hope is again...a bigger venue...Clovis HS just wasn't big enough.
Senior Member
The issue I see with NORCAL TOC qualifying sytem is it is basically choose your own adventure--go to enough qualifiers and eventually you will find one that you can qualify in. Rod Hedlund is kind of a genius in my mind as he has found a win win solution with tournament hosts and created a co-marketing agreement (they get kids wanting to qualify at local events and he gets more qualifiers that leads to a bigger event championship). I think from a fundraising or revenue model this makes a ton of sense and is rather brillant. I also know he has long tradition and runs a great event. There is a reason why we have left that date open on our master schedule in years 1 & 2 and I do not see that changing anytime soon.
I think the only issue is very soon the same JR HS wrestler who had the oppertunity to choose his own adventure as far as qualifying and the go where he wanted policy as youth wrestler will find himself as freshman in a system which requires structure and dicipline and offers no personal choice besides wether to participate or not. Are we training parents properly for the future? Are we advocating for programs or individuals? All questions which we must ask ourselves if we are in it for the long run.
We have been kicking the idea around to host the first ever YOUTH COACHING CONFERENCE & SYMPOSIUM as a forum to answer all of these questions and to get the feedback we need to become a better organization. I am curious to hear your thoughts on this.
There are two types of people: those that talk the talk and those that walk the walk. People who walk the walk sometimes talk the talk but most times they don't talk at all, 'cause they walkin'. Now, people who talk the talk, when it comes time for them to walk the walk, you know what they do? They talk people like me into walkin' for them.
Senior Member
I am almost done with an assesment looking at how many SCWAY Core Clubs (Clubs that serve in positions of leadership) participated at CA USAW event as well as what the falls vs and falls against are.
Preliminary #'s show 50% of there participation numbers were from our core clubs and another 19% wrestled at our event who are members but not involved in the leadership. Almost 31% of our athletes did not wrestle at Seilland arena. The fall count half way through is our core clubs accounted for a 7/1 fall for vs against ratio. What this tells me is statistically the wrestlers that are most likely to attend our event next year were the ones doing the sticking and not being stuck. In addition at SCWAY State we had 78% less falls in the event. What does this mean? It means simply in your sons 30 man bracket 50-60% of the kids likely should have been in a development tournament rather than competing for a state title. This is a harsh reallity to face for all of us but sticking a kid in the first period or tech falling him doesnt do much for anyone. Mat time and quality mat time are two different things. Our vision is that one day at the youth levels we can create a state championship that is not about mat time but rather the culmination of the years training.
There are two types of people: those that talk the talk and those that walk the walk. People who walk the walk sometimes talk the talk but most times they don't talk at all, 'cause they walkin'. Now, people who talk the talk, when it comes time for them to walk the walk, you know what they do? They talk people like me into walkin' for them.
Senior Member
Not a fair comparison since the age groups vary. One organization is 8& under the other is 9& under. The kids with the up years are more likely to place. How many ca usa state placers or champs were not at scway state?
Senior Member
SCWAY model should be unique... I'm used to the NorCal TOC model as well but TOC does not proclaim to be THE State Championships so the model he uses works well for what he is using it for... It is a Regional event for sure and if it was just for a fundraising point of view.. he would open it to SO Cal and those guys would probably flood in too just to see what it is like. For now, the one qualifier works but by year 5.. SCWAY will have a bigger following thus a need for more spots. I assume you wouldn't downsize the State Tournament iif you got another 2,3,4000 wrestlers join next year? I see that as SCWAY grows... zones will then become sections like in HS. By making sections, you also open up for more qualifying spots unless each section only gets so many which as we see in HS, really doesn't work as the Joe Cisneros model comes into effect but then again, you take the good with the bad in certain situations.
As you know, we have a pretty strict model for CVYWA post season and am not sure it would work for SCWAY unless you go to Sections Format and you get some good tournament hosts in those areas... which is easier said than done. I don't see a problem with the same kids qualifying at the same events such as NorCal TOC model...just tells me they belong there. We basically know who will 'qualify' in any situation... as most of it is just a formality and of course any of the qualified wrestlers really do have a shot... a long shot... but a shot non-the-less.
Same Freshman will move up from youth to HS and say.. "wait a minute here, i have to get through 3 tournaments and not just one qualifier like SCWAY???". At the end of the day if you want them to be ready for HS... give them the HS model... as I'm sure it can be in place by year 5. We already do it... just have to entice others to use it...
The Conference would be great but I would do it like the HS one they have in October... with guest speakers, technicians, ect... that would be something cool for us youth coaches who aren't good enough for the HS level...
Senior Member
here is some feedback from a coach who will remain anonymous. His youth club is consistantly top 10 in the state. He has a program of 70+ kids from beginner to advanced and is not from Clovis/Fresno
Thought you guys did a heck of a job this weekend. Great tournament
Few things down the line
1. Friday Night and Saturday Night Clinic – with the state of College Wrestling we need see these wrestlers and coaches more visible. Offering a one hour clinic and then having weigh ins – of course it would optional might be a good thing. After the clinic whatever colleges wanted to could have some table set up to chat with coaches and their efforts to grow California wrestling.
2. Capping brackets at 16 to 24. We don’t want a USAW state meet. The great thing about this weekend was the family/team atmosphere in the gym. By keeping the brackets manageable you accomplish a few things. 1) keeping at Clovis 2) a one day event 3) The zone qualifiers will grow and become very competitive.
3. Weight Classes. I noticed that in the 6 and under there was not a HWT class. I had a couple 70plus kids that would have wrestled. Don’t know if there were others in the same boat. Also in the 12U to me the middle weights from 75-90 were to closely paired. A 3 pound difference is a little small and spreads talent pretty thin. 4-5 pounds in my opinion would be better which would eliminate one of weight classes.
There are two types of people: those that talk the talk and those that walk the walk. People who walk the walk sometimes talk the talk but most times they don't talk at all, 'cause they walkin'. Now, people who talk the talk, when it comes time for them to walk the walk, you know what they do? They talk people like me into walkin' for them.
Senior Member
The conference would be set up that way with speakers, open forum, teqnique etc
Likely have Eric Burnett, Rob Koll, Mike Krause type speakers present.
There are two types of people: those that talk the talk and those that walk the walk. People who walk the walk sometimes talk the talk but most times they don't talk at all, 'cause they walkin'. Now, people who talk the talk, when it comes time for them to walk the walk, you know what they do? They talk people like me into walkin' for them.
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